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Poster: djflosc Date: May 24, 2003 11:16pm
Forum: etree Subject: jack johnson trip 1&2

what is this ? and where can i get the setlist?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffTyler Date: May 25, 2003 12:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: jack johnson trip 1&2

I'm not sure this is the right place to post this question, since netiher of those are, or prob. ever will be on, the Internet Archive. Cruise over to http://www.jackjohnsonmusic.com for more jack-related forum's.

The reason they prob. won't be added is that they are 'compilations' and those aren't allowed here. The same reason the JOAT isn't allowed here.

But to answer your q, TRIP I and II can be found out more about by reading this Jack Johnson FAQ:

http://www.holestoheaven.com/faq.html#4.12

if you need the exact .txt files for them, drop me a line at thuffATucsdDOTedu

Tyler

This post was modified by Tyler on 2003-05-25 07:10:03

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Poster: localcanada Date: Oct 19, 2004 7:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: jack johnson trip 1&2

Can you send me the link FAQ from holestoheaven.com the site is down. Thanks.
Cam localcanada@yahoo.com

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffTyler Date: Oct 19, 2004 1:15pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: jack johnson trip 1&2

wow, what an old thread ...

info on TRIP is on this FAQ:

http://www.jackjohnsonmusic.com/forum2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18

as far as JOAT on here as a compilation ... i don't think it has happened yet :)

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: May 25, 2003 12:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Compilations

The reason they prob. won't be added is that they are 'compilations' and those aren't allowed here.

There's 2 issues with compilations.

1. They don't fit well in the filing system here at the LMA (by date of performance). You'd pretty much have to give the discs a "fake date" that isn't associated with the multiple performance dates, and then downloaders would have a heck of time finding them years down the road.

2. We're not sure how artists will react to them - and I'm sure there will be different reactions. They've given us permission to host recordings of their live shows, but we can't assume that their permission extends to mixing/matching songs from those together.

We don't want to discourage folks from putting them together, because they are nice to have, but we don't want to host them on the LMA section of the Archive - if artists are friendly to them, a new sub-section of the Audio Archive should be created.

For those interested, there was a prior discussion regarding this back in December - also surrounding Jack.

-Brad

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Poster: boogie Date: May 25, 2003 4:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Compilations (JOAT specifically)

beblanc,

regarding the JOAT compilation issue (since you brought it up)...i had gotten explicit permission from the jack johnson folks to have JOAT hosted here and they included the etree@archive.org address on the original recipients list...it hasnt happened, and i havent followed up until now ;)

i have attached the permission email here again...and the email from jonathan that stated that given artist approval it would be possible to host it here...can we get those files hosted now?

as far as the date issue goes, that compilation has one date its release date and it is generally traded with that date (see sources in cirulation at db.etree.org)


boogie


----- Original Message -----
From: "Boogie Shafer"
To: "Jon Aizen"
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 2:55 AM
Subject: Fw: Jack Johnson


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jacob Tell"
> To:
> Cc: "Boogie Shafer"
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 1:30 AM
> Subject: Jack Johnson
>
>
> To whom it may concern:
>
> We (Oniracom) work very closely with Jack Johnson and management and have
> asked them about hosting the JOAT compilation for trade on etree.org so that
> tape traders end up with less B&Ps of the same thing over and over, etc.
> Management has approved the JOAT Compilation to be hosted for download and
> trade only (non profit). The following thread is a refrence for more
> clerification:
>
> http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=2566
>
> Thank you,
> Jacob Tell
> Oniracom Corp.
> jacob@oniracom.com
>

================================================

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Aizen"
To: "Boogie Shafer"
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: posts

> boogie -
>
> ok so your request has been answered. kinda :)
>
> 1) given artist permission and
> 2) once i have a chance to modify the db (soon ... i finished finals
today)
> so shows don't require dates.
>
> compilations will be accepted. please keep this off the forum until i
have
> a chance to implement it rolling, k?
>
> thank you very much for your patience. and, if you could do me a huge
> favor? ;) post to http://www.archive.org/todo.php a request to allow
> compilations by not requiring a date. it'd serve as a very useful
reminder
> to me.
>
> jon

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: May 25, 2003 4:57am
Forum: etree Subject: Nice.

i had gotten explicit permission from the jack johnson folks to have JOAT hosted here and they included the etree@archive.org address on the original recipients list.

Cool Boogie, once the developers create a section for them here, it'll be one of the first up (if not THE first).

Thanks for following up with us on that.

can we get those files hosted now?

It's just pending the creation of a new section for it. It may be time to start thinking about how we'll be filing these. By Artist and By Title maybe?

-Brad

P.S. For the Jack fans, it's important to note that Jacob has only given permission for us to host the JOAT discs...

This post was modified by bleblanc57 on 2003-05-25 11:57:27

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: May 25, 2003 5:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Nice.

Yes let's start thinking about this. I will eventually develop the changes necessary, but I must say it isn't a particularly high priority (other things, like making it so users can upload books, are higher priority). I have a feeling it'll happen with rev2 of the site, which will happen at some point. The second revision will come some time after I begin full-time this June.

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Poster: boogie Date: May 25, 2003 5:18am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Nice.


how about filing it under May 18, 2001 until then?

boogie

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Poster: Erich Date: May 25, 2003 5:29am
Forum: etree Subject: I still dont see the point.

how about filing it under May 18, 2001 until then?

the reason was just stated:

1. They don't fit well in the filing system here at the LMA (by date of performance). You'd pretty much have to give the discs a "fake date" that isn't associated with the multiple performance dates, and then downloaders would have a heck of time finding them years down the road.

the fake date would just be innapropriate.

I just dont see the reason for compilations. I mean, if dup shows get deleted, then why arent dup tracks deleted the same way? I just think its going to give people the oportunity to waste space on the archive by filling it up with stuff thats already there. Everyone and their kid brother is going to want to make a "best of" and uploaded it. I think its best to just maybe have a new info page with links to the respective files on the other shows, or details of what it encompases.

I was talking with someone about JOAT at one point and he said that it incuded non-live demo material as well. If thats the case, once the section for non live archived material surfaces, why dont we just put all of it there instead of only art on the compilation.

I do see only one good reason to have compilations up here. In the case that select performances that are UNABLE to be on the archive otherwise get uploaded. Example, Tim Reynold's solo performaces durring dave matthews & tim reynolds concerts. dave leaves the stage for 2 of tims solo original numbers. If those were compiled together by year, i can understand the want to put it up here because D+T shows cant be included, but theyre in essance mini tim solo performances within each show.

Otherwise, i just see it as a waste. the shows that were put here were put for the purpose of archiving them, and i thikn compilations fall under what you do with the shows after you get them from here.

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Poster: boogie Date: May 25, 2003 5:43am
Forum: etree Subject: maybe you never will ;)


erich,

as i have mentioned before on this issue...its not a FAKE date...and its the date we use on etree and withing the community to categorize this compilation which is UNIQUE in its material..its not a compilation made up of stuff that is generally circulated as you are assuming

the majority of live material on JOAT is NOT TRADED UNDER ANY OTHER DATES as that material was never released seperately(in fact its not even "tracked")...the other non-live stuff (the majority of the discs) has also not been released seperately, nor is it available on archive

i would propose that your idea of splitting this "reference" compilation apart into your "live"/"studio"/etc buckets is both a waste of time, more confusing to fans, and flies in the face of the very reason this compilation was put together in the first
place...to collect alot of small, non cirulated gems into 1, easily tradeable collection

i agree that most fan made compilations dont have a place on this site, but THIS compilation is unique and it was the foundation for the entire Jack Johnson live music trading scene that has developed since....the other compilations that people have made since that time are derivative and made from widely circulated sources which people CAN GET elsewhere, and those (TRIP/Whole Lotta Jack/etc) dont need to be hosted here

if you dont want the compilation you dont need to download it, but ALOT of people do want it, and today they are downloading bad rips off of kazaa and trying to make their own personal "JOAT"


boogie

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Poster: Erich Date: May 25, 2003 6:45am
Forum: etree Subject: On the other hand...

Im not saying there's no room for exceptions. If all this material was compiled from stuff otherwise uncirculated, then sure, that works fine then. Thats what i mentioned in premise on my last comment, that stuff not on the archive due to one reason or another may fit well in a compilation catagory

as i have mentioned before on this issue...its not a FAKE date...and its the date we use on etree and withing the community to categorize this compilation which is UNIQUE in its material..

the date is still fake though when referancing a live performace, as its a compilation date and not a show date, and thats why no matter how much of an exception the compilation is it may not mesh well with the archives dating system. If theyre willing to accept it on the archive without a special system because of that, then fine, but so far it doesnt seem so and its most likely for that specific reason.

yeah, your point can hold up for this and maybe few other compilations that may fall under the same exception, but its a flood gate. Everyone will want to start uploading their compilations, and it may be a bitch to start screening them, especialy people want to start asking the band for each compilation they want to upload

Pretty much, my entire argument is based not on a compilation of stuff that people cannot get elsewhere, but a "greatest hits", "best of summer '02", "So-and-so highlights" type compilation that can otherwise be referanced to material thats either on the archive or can easily be uploaded. for that reason, im happy dmb wont be part of it when the comp system comes into play, as there are waaaaaaay too many "dream setlist" type compilations out there.

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Poster: boogie Date: May 25, 2003 6:59am
Forum: etree Subject: i totally understand

erich,
i totally understand your aversion to compilations and the problems that it can open up in a general sense (another reason NOT to create a special section for them)...i think the JOAT "compilation" is a different animal, and we have been given band permission to host it here..i think fitting it into the existing DATE based structure (in its correct time slot) is far more intuitive for users and correct categorically speaking than putting it in a whole seperate category..i am absolutely NOT in favor of compilations in a general sense.

i still disagree on your basic "fake" date contention..consider that studio material is VERY SELDOM dated..whats wrong with using a release date as is done with studio work? or if you (or anyone for that matter) doesnt know the actual date...you are dating the collection of items, not a performance or a given track...and that JOAT collection was released May 18, 2001...its not confusing in the slightest and i think far BETTER than the alternative of ??/??/2000 or 00/00/2000 type of stuff you see if you rip the date off of a compilation or never assign one (like based on release date)...if anything people getting this compilation should BE AWARE of the date it came out to put it in proper context...May 18, 2001...the setlist gives information for the other dated material within the collection, but like i said, most of that stuff doesnt cirulate seperately and was only released as part of the JOAT compilation.

either way, we hammered all this stuff out months ago, i'm just hoping we can get the fileset activated soon

boogie

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Poster: Erich Date: May 25, 2003 7:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: i totally understand

im not saying youre wrong in naming it that way. I have a few studio releases I want to upload to the archive and i dated them acording to the release date, since thats the most logical. But JOAT is not just a studio demo compilation. Its got at least two live dates in the mix along with what seems to be filler, on top of all the studio stuff. So its not a PROPER date, its a RELEASE date. The archive is based on proper show dates. maybe you were getting the wrong idea of the term "fake" date, but its been mentioned by at least one higher up than me that thats not what they want to do with the arhcive in terms of dating. Not to mention theres also a thing about filler (Rochester, NY (02/10/2001)), which should be included as a seperate show and not included with the compilation.

To give you basicaly a real time example of it, i entered a net only studio release to etree by release date, and it was fucked up because of confusion between a show that was performed that day, and thats not even more than one date.

But on another note - why arent the indevidual dates available? was the compilation made from source tapes that are no longer available? was only part of the show taped?

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Poster: boogie Date: May 25, 2003 7:56am
Forum: etree Subject: erich


erich,

no offense, but this is getting old, esp considering we hammered this out months ago..the "FILLER" you mention is exactly the show i'm talking about that HAS NEVER BEEN RELEASED SEPERATELY, NOR WILL IT

it was taped by the guy that put the compilation together...he released the recording with the other studio tracks as one "compilation"

THE ONLY WAY PEOPLE HAVE EVER GOT THAT ROCHESTER RECORDING WAS VIA JOAT....HE SPECIFICALLY DIDNT TRACK IT OUT SEPERATELY ON JOAT EITHER...HIS REQUEST..

you seem to be hung up on this idea of a "show" and seem have a very narrow/singular view of what a "recording" can comprise...i look at the archive as a place for people to get access to material they otherwise wouldnt be able to get, if some material comes wrapped in a package that includes some other things you might already have (or dont want), so be it....breaking these discs APART into seperate entities that have never existed in isolated forms is TOTALLY REDICULOUS...the dates are noted in the txt file for those that might otherwise be "confused"...further splitting of this collection would only make it harder for people to access this material and as we have only been given permission to host the studio demo stuff as part of the JOAT compilation, that material couldnt even be hosted seperately...the people that want these discs, WANT THEM AS A SET..that is what they are looking for..they want "JOAT"... not rochester 2/9/2001, demo #1, demo #2, etc..the value of this material is as a set and as a snapshot of the material available at that point in time when this artist was just getting going...on their own the individual items arent that special actually, together they form a meaningfull whole that people are interested in

boogie

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: May 25, 2003 7:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Nice.

I think this has just gone on long enough, there is no reason for this much discussion about something. If we can host Democracy Now recordings in the Live Music Archive, then what the hell, put this in until it's final home is there.

FWIW, I personally agree that it's a false date and in the end should not have that as its "performance date" rather should have it in the correct metadata slot: "release date".

Again, this just isn't worth beating into the ground, so let's put it up and let the people have what they want. If Boogie and the JJ management took the time to get it through the works, let's not stop it here.

Please though, in the metadata, flag in bold references to the conversations and a note that the recording belongs in a compilation (or multi-date) section.

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Poster: Erich Date: May 25, 2003 8:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Nice.

FWIW, I personally agree that it's a false date and in the end should not have that as its "performance date" rather should have it in the correct metadata slot: "release date".

*insert shit eating grin* :D

This post was modified by Erich on 2003-05-25 15:16:28

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: May 26, 2003 1:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: reminder- lost some emails to LMA contact point

i had gotten explicit permission from the jack johnson folks to have JOAT hosted here and they included the etree@archive.org address on the original recipients list...it hasnt happened, and i havent followed up until now

Hmm, AFAIK I did not see this one come through to etree@archive.org, but from the date I expect it was lost during an extensive email "black hole" period for the address- with no bounce.

Folks, if you sent in anything a while ago re some band permission or related- especially around March 2003- and did not see it acted upon, please resend! We probably never saw it. I hate the idea that we may have lost some OKs. :(

This post was modified by hamilton on 2003-05-26 08:26:20